Logical proof of God's existence

[Shredderbeam]

Originally Posted by Cody

Both were my inquiries I suppose, and where did the materials for evolution come from?

The materials for evolution (matter and energy) were present from the beginning of the universe. I don't know if they were created, or if they existed in a timeless state "prior" (not implying time) to the beginning.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by peanuts

Well I would like to thank you shredder as you have made me a non believer through your perilous arguments against god.

One thing that got me thinking very hard about gods existence is the story of adam and eve. Now when they bit into the fruit they gained a sense of right and wrong correct? Well it got me thinking how the hell were they supposed to know it was wrong to bite into the fruit in the first place, they did not know it was wrong, they also did not know it was wrong to disobey god. So my logical conclusion is that god must not exist because if he did and that story was true then he is cruel and unjust to adam and eve that were without sin and holy and what not. He did not give them a sense of right and wrong, thus they cannot have known that to disobey god and eat the fruit was wrong. It is the same as if a baby goes ahead and eats paste, you can't blame the baby because it does not know its wrong.

Actually, the story says that God tells Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the tree. I guess that's how they were supposed to know not to.

Originally Posted by Pat

If your god exists where is he, and what has he contributed to us that makes him worth worshiping?

Well he (I use 'he' because typing 'it' sounds a little derogatory) created the universe and he created you. That's a fair contribution.

And yes, the theory of evolution makes no sense FYI. For cells/bacteria or w/e to evolve into other things, they had to have been created. Now, whatever created those must have been created by something else etc etc. This leads on indefinately unless you reach something which has always been around. :O Omg! It's God!

[Saad]

It's funny how people keep responding to Darren's ancient circulated threads, especially when he already came to the conclusion that the ontological argument is a fallacy.

He's spread this around so much he probably forgot about it on this forum.

[chillerthefry]

The bible was told by word of mouth for over 200 years, written on scripts, some script lost, translated over 7 different languages, and written through 2 different testaments.
I can hardly believe that the bible is quite realistic, theres got to be some missing lines.

The bible storys are true, basically morals, and rules to live by.
But about, not being able to have sex, eating certain meats,
I think thats a load of jibberish. Discuss?

[Shard]

Let me bring out a few points here.

First, we have to set something straight. Don't confuse God and the Bible. Two different discussions.

My first point is on the bible itself. I was talking to a stranger the other day, he was a bit of a religious nut. He asked me if I believed in god, and I answered yes, because I do. He then asked me "Well do you believe in aliens?". At this point, I already knew the point he was about to try and make. I answered "I believe that there's a high possibility that there are life forms on other planets, but I don't have undeniable proof". So he said "So how do you believe in god and the bible, and the possibility of life forms on other planets? The bible didn't say anything about aliens!".

I laughed, and said "What about dinosaurs? Were they in the bible? Explain that shit."

My point being this: The bible might speak the truth, but it certainly doesn't have all the answers. It just tells us what God wants us to know. You religious freaks can't survive in the world on the bible alone.



My next subject is dealing with god. Now, I do believe in god, but that certainly does not mean that I worship/love him. As a matter of fact, if god does exist, than I hate him more than anything. I hope that by reading the following, you'll see why I feel this way.

God created all, or so he says. No proof of that. If he created the universe and planets other than earth, then that raises all sorts of other theories that i'll go into some other time.

So, god created man and gave them free will. After that, he told them that if they didn't do everything his way, that they'd die, and he held true to his word.

I'm about to cover the subject of sin, but to help you understand that subject more clearly, I want to cover something first, that almost no one gets.

Stupid, stupid people all think that the bible says when you die if you're a good christian, then you go to heaven. And it says that if you die a sinner, you go to hell. This is bullshit, the bible does not say this. The bible says that 144,000 people, chosen at birth, will go to heaven and rule with God Almighty by his side. All of the other christians take another route when they die, explained in the following paragraph.

The bible teaches that those who die as faithful christians are in the ground, dead and buried. They don't fucking go to heaven. What happens at this point, is their "spirit" is in a deep sleep. After Satan's trial rule is over (I'll discuss this later), there will be a RESURRECTION. This is where everyone makes a fool of themselves, thinking that one day the world will end and we'll all go to heaven or hell. The "end of the world" is not literal. In the bible, the "world" means everything that isn't christian. Meaning that one day, everything and everyone that isn't a christian will be destroyed.

The resurrection after armageddon is when all of the good christians that died are resurrected from the dead, and all christians that ever were will walk the earth as perfect human beings, incapable of sin. (this is where the bible contradicts itself though, stating that after the resurrection, or "new system", people who sin will be killed on the spot.)

Now that we've covered the resurrection, I want to talk to you about the idea of sin and Satan.

Satan was an angel, one that was very close to God. He requested that he be allowed to rule over the earth that God created, and was of course denied. After that, he went down to the earth in the form of a serpent, and reminded Eve that she had free will, and gave her the idea to eat from the tree of life. She did so, along with Adam, and at that point God told them "You now have sin". What an asshole! He just took credit for creating sin, while in reality, it was already there. If God gave them sin, how did they eat the fruit? How could they defy God if he hadn't already given them the ability?



These are just a few ideas, and a few corrections that I like to make to what people think they know about the Bible and God. I'll state more later, as this was a lengthy post.

You people are misunderstanding the intent of this by limiting it to the scope of the Christian God. That was not the idea behind this at all; this "logic", if I would go so far as to call it that, was to be applied to any being that was the root of causation, be it known to man or not.

[Addiction]

I'm confused.. Are you an Atheist?

There is so much pain and suffering in this world.
So much unhappiness... If god does exist, he is just an angry school child burning ants with a magnifying glass.

Originally Posted by Jay

Actually, the story says that God tells Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the tree. I guess that's how they were supposed to know not to.



Well he (I use 'he' because typing 'it' sounds a little derogatory) created the universe and he created you. That's a fair contribution.

And yes, the theory of evolution makes no sense FYI. For cells/bacteria or w/e to evolve into other things, they had to have been created. Now, whatever created those must have been created by something else etc etc. This leads on indefinately unless you reach something which has always been around. :O Omg! It's God!

What created god?

This has always troubled me... What started everything. And I mean EVERYTHING.
Nobody can say god, because who made god? What was the dawn of creation and when was it?

[FagMicchi]

1). God is a necessary being. - There is a 1/10^1000 or something chance that we would happen, you being alive gives yuo a 1/x chance to have been born in this world. But being alive means your going to exist, on a world that has a 1 in a trillion chance of being made.